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foreign

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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host and we have a great show I'm really

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excited to have Charles Lear he's

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written a wonderful book The Flying

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Saucer investigators and he has been

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writing blogs for me for years he wrote

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recently a series of five uh behind the

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scionic I get this wrong yeah behind the

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scenes of you of UFO cover-up live it

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was about a series that was on TV but

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behind the scenes on that oh my goodness

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so there's a lot to talk about again he

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did a series of five and they've been

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popular on YouTube as far as the audio

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blogs which he does as well however I

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just discovered today with the series of

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five that number four is missing and

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that's totally my fault and it will be

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uh posted in a while I'll try to post it

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within the next couple of days so uh now

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a couple of things uh

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let's see tomorrow night tomorrow night

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at uh 8 P.M I'm going to be right here

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with Mark d'antonio and it's going to be

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a totally different show I do the

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everything else show which is usually

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topics that I like to do other than UFO

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uh topics and I have done uh some

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interesting ones one with a uh FBI

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whistleblower that spent time in jail uh

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reporting uh torture uh and that was

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really interesting these are ones I did

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years ago one of someone that was

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Shipwrecked basically for 86 days and

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one on ghosts and all kinds of things

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I've done all kinds of different shows

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again these are topics that I find

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interesting other than UFO so tomorrow

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night like I say it's going to be really

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different now Mark d'antonio went

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through uh a very serious heart surgery

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years ago and a lot of things happening

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barely uh

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he almost didn't make it and so he's

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joining me and we're both going to be

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talking about our experiences and it

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again it's a personal type of situation

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however there's a lot of things that are

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actually pretty funny that happened so

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it might be entertaining for someone to

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watch again that's tomorrow night at

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eight o'clock next week we have Avi Loeb

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on uh from Harvard and

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let's see this week's blog that Charles

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uh did was UFOs

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and uh uh oh yes and the police in Colby

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Kansas and that was back in I think I

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did read it I think it was night 1970s I

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believe when that happened and uh that

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well like he can I think it was uh 1972.

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that's when it happened anyway uh we can

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talk quickly about that and with no

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further Ado Here Comes Charles welcome

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to the show Charles hi Martin always

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good to be here yeah uh thank you for

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all you do I should say you do so much

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and I really do appreciate it but uh

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What uh

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it was 1972 the latest block uh 7273

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yeah the actual I think the actual

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police the sighting was 72 yeah good job

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and and there was uh multiple Witnesses

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I love those uh police sightings you

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know I mean you hear uh Skeptics say

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well there are no better observers than

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anyone else but I kind of tend to

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disagree with that I think they're you

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know they don't want to come forward

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look at Lonnie Zamora you know wished he

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never come came forward oh yeah I have

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one more announcement I forgot to make

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uh last week

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uh we had a terrible internet issues and

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I had John Ramirez on and I had a lot of

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people saying that they were frustrated

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uh I didn't do the show that long and

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all that and um again the internet

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issues were really bad I was in my

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office location and I couldn't hear half

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of what he was saying so it was a very

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disjointed interview and so he's coming

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back on December 27th to basically

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finish the interview just wanted to make

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that announcement and uh let's move on

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so uh I was just saying that I think the

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policemen are one of the people along

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with military people especially when

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someone's flying in a plane they know

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what you know enemy aircraft do they

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really take a lot of study in that so

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these are what I consider credible

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Witnesses

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and I'm just making a point I love the

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police officers I I do too uh they're I

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I consider the police uh the uh first

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line investigators I mean they're very

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often the first people people uh

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organizations people turn to when

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there's a sighting in the neighborhood

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or an area especially you know most

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people don't know where to report to a

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lot of police have I just wrote a Blog

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about new Fork uh and a lot of police

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actually do have the new Fork National

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UFO Reporting Center number uh you know

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at the ready uh but yeah very often uh

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the police throughout history police

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have been the first people out there and

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well when I had my sighting back in 2007

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I had no idea there was anything online

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and that's what I did I called the

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police department exactly yes I didn't

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know who to call and you know generally

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because they're uh you know it's their

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backyard their jurisdiction uh they're

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yeah they're like for instance the

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Trumbull County Ohio uh case that was

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all uh recorded uh at the police

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dispatchers and they had a uh a

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recording of that and uh researcher

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Kenny young reached out to them they

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handed it over immediately no oh yeah

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sure no problem you know this is our

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business this has nothing to do with the

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uh big brother so yeah yeah so this

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series you wrote uh the five part series

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you kept digging into it and finding out

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more and more and boy is that convoluted

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when it comes to all the players in that

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and I I'm almost more confused after

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reading all that than trying to I can't

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quite figure the whole thing out it was

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uh but why don't you uh first of all I

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do have to say this too I was thinking

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about this today when we talk about

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these characters there's a lot of people

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that are new in the UFO world and they

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may have no clue who Richard Doty is

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Paul benowitz uh Bill Moore well yeah

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that's people that's the we have to keep

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that in mind well that's a real issue

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when I wrote this piece I was like you

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know what I got to kind of put UFO one

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you followed you 101 on the back burner

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and just I I wrote it for people who are

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a little more familiar with this stuff

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yeah

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um and it you know it was

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uh an exploration of mine I was the one

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exploring I wanted to like really look

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into this and know about this and I you

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know I

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do keep uh the newcomers in mind

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most of the time I some to some extent

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kept them in mind doing this trying to

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you know explain who these people were

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and the the back story but it like you

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said it's super convoluted

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um and it's also a lot of stuff that

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um if you didn't grow up you know if you

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weren't around during the 80s and then

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into the 90s

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um

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you you know you this stuff

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back then this stuff was all over the

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place this stuff dominated Roswell a

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1947 case pretty much

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the entire 80s slammed down our throats

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to the point where you know us folks who

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went through it we're sick to death of

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Roswell you know we're done with it much

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like I'm sure this generation is uh

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pretty much done with uh uh to the Stars

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Academy and the New York Times article

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and uh you know it's uh had enough it

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sucked the life out of ufology

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um but so in writing the the blog I I I

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realized that the series what's funny is

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I thought it was going to be two parts

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maybe three parts and it ended up being

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um

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it was difficult to dig in deep

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um

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and I I think it's probably better if uh

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it's better red I think than listen to

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uh because I'm sure there's a lot of

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stuff you got to read twice uh but it's

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more of a guide for

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the uh anybody who's interested in all

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this stuff to look into it themselves

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I've got links to

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all the pertinent documents

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um so somebody who's really interested

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in the question that I was interested in

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which I'll get to in a moment uh can

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look into this for themselves and make

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their own decisions I was also you know

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careful to say look this is a

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speculation it's a thought experiment

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I'm trying to find this I'm looking at

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it from the point of view of parsimony

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the simplest explanation uh if you've

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got two what you know

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different arguments the simplest

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explanation is usually the answer

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so anyway with that being said

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um what I was looking into

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the there was this show called UFO

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cover-up

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question mark live exclamation point uh

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yeah uh UFO cover-up question mark live

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exclamation point and it was a pretty

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ridiculous show uh with a lot of

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outrageous claims and in the end had two

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shadowy figures government insiders uh

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Falcon and Condor

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um talking about uh an alien that uh an

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alien that was uh part of an exchange

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program uh and the kicker was

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um Falcon saying that uh this alien

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liked to be right yeah yeah Ebe this

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this Ebe liked uh Tibet ancient Tibetan

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music and

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um strawberry ice cream was its favorite

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snack so

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um

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and you also had it was pretty much a

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showcase for uh William Moore uh Stanton

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Friedman and Jamie chandaray uh for

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their

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um

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Friedman uh actually

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said on air that they have proof

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um that there actually was a crash at

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Roswell and that there were aliens

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recovered and that the uh

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uh did autopsies on them so

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yeah which has turned out not to be the

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case the the proof is uh it turns out

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the documents are almost certainly fake

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uh the mj-12 documents which was a

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series of uh eight documents Jamie

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chandray received with a Albuquerque

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postmark uh in his mailbox on film uh so

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you don't even have the original

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documents and then when you look at the

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documents themselves are crazy but

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anyway in order to these characters uh

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characters of condor and Falcon the the

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mysterious government insiders in Shadow

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pretty much people are convinced uh that

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this was Richard Doty uh Infamous

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uh self-proclaimed CIA trained Air Force

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office of special investigations

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disinformation agent working on behalf

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of the AFS oi and the CIA

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uh to uh spread confusion among UFO

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researchers via William Moore a

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co-author with Charles berlitz and

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Stanton Friedman in the background doing

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research on the Roswell incident

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um and prior to that uh co-author with

276
00:13:26,569 --> 00:13:24,300
Charles billitz on the Philadelphia

277
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:26,579
Experiment

278
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:29,519
um and uh Robert Collins uh was uh

279
00:13:34,850 --> 00:13:32,279
supposedly Condor uh Collins I think was

280
00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:34,860
another afosi guy

281
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:35,459
um

282
00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:39,120
so in order to the

283
00:13:46,009 --> 00:13:43,380
ACC accusations have come up that uh

284
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:46,019
this show was used as part of government

285
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:48,839
this information program uh to spread

286
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:52,500
these ridiculous stories uh around the

287
00:13:56,769 --> 00:13:55,260
uh UFO community and confused all this

288
00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:56,779
researchers

289
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:00,660
and it certainly did people were

290
00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:02,880
extremely confused and a lot of time was

291
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:03,860
spent

292
00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:07,920
uh yeah look the claims figuring out who

293
00:14:14,050 --> 00:14:11,700
Condor and Falcon were uh whether the

294
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:14,060
mj-12 documents were real

295
00:14:22,670 --> 00:14:18,300
and what was their truth to the fact

296
00:14:24,889 --> 00:14:22,680
that uh the Air Force was operating in

297
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:24,899
this an actual disinformation Campaign

298
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:27,300
which had been you know it's a constant

299
00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:31,380
from ufology uh way back in the day

300
00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:34,380
um so I wanted to look into the idea

301
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:35,339
that

302
00:14:38,509 --> 00:14:37,920
uh Richard Dodie

303
00:14:41,150 --> 00:14:38,519
um

304
00:14:44,590 --> 00:14:41,160
was acting on his own

305
00:14:48,889 --> 00:14:44,600
um maybe in concert with Robert Collins

306
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:48,899
and that bill Moore uh

307
00:14:52,930 --> 00:14:51,420
kind of looked the other way in a lot of

308
00:14:56,509 --> 00:14:52,940
stuff and uh

309
00:15:00,110 --> 00:14:56,519
uh kind of took the mj-12 documents

310
00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:00,120
didn't look into them uh basically kind

311
00:15:06,290 --> 00:15:03,480
of uh they were doing him more of a

312
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,300
favor if they were he considered them

313
00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:09,120
real and presented them as real uh it

314
00:15:12,829 --> 00:15:11,100
certainly would help his book sales and

315
00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:12,839
anything else he wanted to do in terms

316
00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:16,740
of writing so I also looked into the

317
00:15:20,030 --> 00:15:18,540
idea that he was somewhat culpable in

318
00:15:20,769 --> 00:15:20,040
this

319
00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:20,779
um

320
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:25,019
and that UFO cover-up live

321
00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:28,320
wasn't a disinformation program uh so

322
00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:30,180
much as it was a train wreck

323
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:35,579
uh so that's uh I began with uh you talk

324
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:40,449
yeah yeah

325
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:44,100
uh yes that was really something I

326
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:52,189
yeah it went badly um so there's uh I

327
00:15:56,509 --> 00:15:54,540
think I'm having another issue with my

328
00:15:59,389 --> 00:15:56,519
internet okay

329
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,399
well I'll try to fill in the gaps if I

330
00:16:06,009 --> 00:16:01,380
can uh but

331
00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:06,019
um yeah so uh in order to to begin

332
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:10,860
uh I looked one of the establish The

333
00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:14,399
credibility of both Dodie and more

334
00:16:17,689 --> 00:16:15,660
um

335
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:17,699
and so starting with William Moore

336
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,699
William Moore prior to all the Roswell

337
00:16:25,310 --> 00:16:22,680
stuff was a co-author with Charles

338
00:16:26,769 --> 00:16:25,320
berlitz on the book The Philadelphia

339
00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:26,779
Experiment

340
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,000
basically centered around the eye um

341
00:16:36,850 --> 00:16:35,519
uh an episode

342
00:16:41,150 --> 00:16:36,860
um

343
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,160
this guy Carlos alende this gets really

344
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,880
difficult so I need my notes Here We Go

345
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:49,850
yeah Carlos alende

346
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:51,720
uh wait a minute

347
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,420
yeah okay that's the part two gave me a

348
00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:56,160
moment

349
00:17:00,290 --> 00:16:58,620
boom

350
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,300
well while you're doing that can you

351
00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:02,160
hear me okay yeah we're all good

352
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:04,620
unfortunately there's uh I'm at a

353
00:17:08,929 --> 00:17:06,179
different location I'm having a little

354
00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:08,939
bit of issues still it's possible it's

355
00:17:15,049 --> 00:17:10,500
my computer it's something I know we're

356
00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:15,059
going to look into uh right away but um

357
00:17:20,809 --> 00:17:17,100
I just wanted to say a little bit about

358
00:17:24,169 --> 00:17:20,819
Dodie for for it seems to me that you

359
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:24,179
sort of uncovered that he may be he may

360
00:17:29,810 --> 00:17:27,299
have been working on his own uh you know

361
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:29,820
his last few years

362
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:32,520
of service he was working in basically

363
00:17:38,350 --> 00:17:35,220
in the food uh

364
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,360
part of whatever it was Food Service

365
00:17:45,230 --> 00:17:41,280
which is really unusual if he really did

366
00:17:47,570 --> 00:17:45,240
have a high position and he received no

367
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:47,580
uh

368
00:17:52,850 --> 00:17:51,240
it when he was a police officer he he

369
00:17:54,590 --> 00:17:52,860
just seemed like he was treated like uh

370
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,600
every other person not someone that

371
00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:55,919
would have been in some type of

372
00:18:02,990 --> 00:17:59,340
intelligence so um it does look a little

373
00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:03,000
iffy and um I I had him scheduled for a

374
00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:06,900
show uh about five or six years ago

375
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:09,660
and I said to him and uh by the way

376
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,200
Alejandro Rojas was pretty upset he he

377
00:18:17,330 --> 00:18:15,360
said uh that I was going to have him on

378
00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:17,340
the show he said don't give that guy any

379
00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:20,940
air time he's a liar that's basically

380
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:24,299
what he said and uh so uh I hope and

381
00:18:27,370 --> 00:18:26,760
I'll get sued for saying that but anyway

382
00:18:31,789 --> 00:18:27,380
um

383
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:31,799
the thing of it is is he

384
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:34,320
um he's now he's glorified in all these

385
00:18:40,909 --> 00:18:37,679
movies and Steven Greer he was just on

386
00:18:44,510 --> 00:18:40,919
in Stephen Greer's yeah so I'm uh going

387
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,520
uh continuing his uh aliens and ice

388
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,200
cream Spiel I don't know if yeah

389
00:18:52,450 --> 00:18:48,960
strawberry ice cream yeah yeah yeah

390
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:52,460
um but yeah I uh that's the other side

391
00:18:56,930 --> 00:18:54,960
so I'm looking into the credibility of

392
00:18:59,210 --> 00:18:56,940
more and Dodie

393
00:19:02,210 --> 00:18:59,220
um I'll I'll get to Dodie in a second uh

394
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,220
but the story with uh more uh these

395
00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:04,500
Philadelphia Experiment there was an

396
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:07,500
experiment in uh the Philadelphia Navy

397
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:09,900
Yard where U.S Navy ship was instantly

398
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:11,940
transported from its dock in

399
00:19:17,210 --> 00:19:14,340
Philadelphia to a dock in the Norfolk

400
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:17,220
Newport News Portsmouth area Virginia

401
00:19:21,549 --> 00:19:20,640
basically uh so these quotes are from a

402
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:21,559
letter

403
00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:26,160
uh from Carl Allen to Morris K Jessup

404
00:19:32,049 --> 00:19:30,260
who was a famous uh researcher and um

405
00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:32,059
uh

406
00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:35,640
they were the Genesis of the story that

407
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:38,580
Moore and berlitz supported

408
00:19:43,330 --> 00:19:41,160
um with anecdotal and circumstantial

409
00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:43,340
evidence so if you read The Philadelphia

410
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:47,940
Experiment it's basically Carl Allen uh

411
00:19:54,049 --> 00:19:51,120
also known as Carlos alende is the main

412
00:19:58,430 --> 00:19:54,059
source for the story this guy came

413
00:20:00,409 --> 00:19:58,440
forward in 1969 he walked in the to the

414
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:00,419
headquarters of the Aero phenomena

415
00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:02,160
research organization Jim and Carl

416
00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:06,360
lorenzen's group uh in Arizona and he

417
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:08,100
confessed that the letters were a hoax

418
00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:11,520
and this was reported in the July August

419
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:15,720
1969 April bulletin uh when I was down

420
00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:18,600
at the um gray Barker collection the

421
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:21,660
Harrison Clarksburg Public Library

422
00:20:24,970 --> 00:20:22,380
um

423
00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:24,980
David halchen the curator there

424
00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:30,660
uh gave me a paper that he wrote a

425
00:21:50,930 --> 00:20:32,820
a

426
00:21:52,909 --> 00:21:50,940
Moore's credibility

427
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:52,919
um and then Dodie who we were just

428
00:21:55,610 --> 00:21:54,120
talking about

429
00:21:58,250 --> 00:21:55,620
uh

430
00:22:02,149 --> 00:21:58,260
his Air Force service records can be

431
00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:02,159
found online it's uh not easily which is

432
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:03,299
kind of

433
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:06,059
um I think a bit of uh

434
00:22:10,190 --> 00:22:07,679
uh

435
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:10,200
it doesn't really reflect well on the

436
00:22:15,409 --> 00:22:12,539
UFO community that these are so hard for

437
00:22:17,649 --> 00:22:15,419
me to find I found them on a UFOs

438
00:22:21,289 --> 00:22:17,659
documenting the evidence

439
00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:21,299
uh that's a blog spot so that that's the

440
00:22:27,070 --> 00:22:23,700
title UFOs documenting the evidence on

441
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:27,080
uh Blogspot blogspot.com

442
00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:30,600
and uh his his Air Force service records

443
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:34,500
are there uh and they clearly show this

444
00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:38,520
guy uh was in law enforcement uh with

445
00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:41,100
the Air Force he worked himself up from

446
00:22:50,029 --> 00:22:44,700
being a gate guard uh and uh wise button

447
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:50,039
uh air base in uh Germany uh up to uh

448
00:22:57,049 --> 00:22:54,240
being a um a detective with the uh Air

449
00:22:58,669 --> 00:22:57,059
Force offense of special intelligence uh

450
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,679
one of his former commanders was

451
00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:00,960
actually quoted as calling him uh his

452
00:23:06,169 --> 00:23:03,240
drug guy so it seems he was the guy that

453
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,179
uh looked into drug issues

454
00:23:11,289 --> 00:23:08,640
um but his whole career even after the

455
00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:11,299
Air Force was in law enforcement however

456
00:23:18,169 --> 00:23:15,900
uh his last two years uh I think it was

457
00:23:21,409 --> 00:23:18,179
almost two years of uh service right

458
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,419
before he retired his records show him

459
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:23,280
in Food Services

460
00:23:33,010 --> 00:23:27,240
uh uh and uh Philip class looked into

461
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:36,230
has stuff around the edges yeah yeah but

462
00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:38,940
in this case I I looked at class because

463
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:40,140
he

464
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:44,880
was extremely concise in uh

465
00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:47,520
his reporting of the episodes around

466
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:52,020
Dodie and more uh basically he specified

467
00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:55,140
that uh Dodie was working as the manager

468
00:23:59,690 --> 00:23:58,020
of the officers mess at Kirtland Air

469
00:24:00,529 --> 00:23:59,700
Force Base

470
00:24:02,770 --> 00:24:00,539
um

471
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:02,780
so

472
00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:07,440
it just doesn't seem like uh the career

473
00:24:15,049 --> 00:24:11,880
trajectory of a CIA trained

474
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:15,059
disinformation agent not to mention the

475
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,720
fact that Dodie has been uh you know

476
00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:20,880
publicly proclaimed this in a public

477
00:24:25,730 --> 00:24:23,880
forum you'd think uh somebody in that

478
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:25,740
position would have had to take a

479
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:27,900
secrecy oath

480
00:24:36,289 --> 00:24:34,020
unfortunately the Air Forces never come

481
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:36,299
forward or nor has anybody else say yeah

482
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:39,120
Dodie worked for us or no Dodie didn't

483
00:24:44,049 --> 00:24:43,020
so you know it it sure the argument's

484
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:44,059
really good

485
00:24:49,789 --> 00:24:47,340
uh but you know and you know maybe I'm

486
00:24:52,490 --> 00:24:49,799
convinced but I can't say this is

487
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:52,500
definitely true you know what I'm saying

488
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:55,760
um so anyway uh so but to begin with so

489
00:25:02,270 --> 00:24:59,520
essentially punched holes in uh more in

490
00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:02,280
Dodie's credibility

491
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:07,340
um and from then on uh it

492
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:11,100
more and chandaray

493
00:25:13,789 --> 00:25:12,000
um

494
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:13,799
well

495
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:16,559
more

496
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:20,700
is responsible for getting the mj-12

497
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,080
documents into the public eye

498
00:25:30,049 --> 00:25:27,120
the mj-12 documents were received by a

499
00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:30,059
friend of his Jamie chandaray in the

500
00:25:35,149 --> 00:25:32,340
mail in an envelope with a Albuquerque

501
00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:35,159
postmark which kind of points to Richard

502
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:37,080
Doty Richard Doty was stationed at

503
00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:39,720
Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque

504
00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:41,940
uh Jamie Chandra is the guy in the

505
00:25:45,649 --> 00:25:42,600
middle

506
00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:45,659
uh Stan Friedman's on the

507
00:25:51,289 --> 00:25:49,620
uh my right and more is on the left uh

508
00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:51,299
and uh

509
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:52,860
so

510
00:25:58,669 --> 00:25:55,080
yeah on film there were

511
00:26:00,909 --> 00:25:58,679
um eight documents uh seven were the

512
00:26:05,570 --> 00:26:00,919
Eisenhower briefing document

513
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:05,580
and one was a uh letter from

514
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:08,640
Truman to James Forrestal

515
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,730
yeah the um

516
00:26:24,529 --> 00:26:21,769
the first hole that was punched in

517
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:24,539
basically what these documents set up uh

518
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:27,000
there was a list of

519
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:28,640
12 names

520
00:26:35,570 --> 00:26:32,159
uh of this group that

521
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:35,580
um supposedly had uh briefed every

522
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:39,659
president from uh Truman to Reagan

523
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:40,640
um

524
00:26:48,169 --> 00:26:44,460
uh yeah I think it was yeah

525
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:48,179
um about the government's secret UFO

526
00:26:53,630 --> 00:26:51,840
program uh so officially since the

527
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:53,640
termination of Project Blue Book there

528
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:56,700
was no government program so they're

529
00:27:00,409 --> 00:26:57,960
saying there was a secret government

530
00:27:02,570 --> 00:27:00,419
program and that they had alien bodies

531
00:27:05,630 --> 00:27:02,580
and crashed wreckage

532
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:05,640
um which was uh what Moore was uh

533
00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:10,320
pushing along with uh Friedman uh so

534
00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:12,299
this is the the famous Roswell crash

535
00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:13,980
well

536
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:15,720
when they started looking at these

537
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:19,260
documents a lot of researchers uh Brad

538
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:22,799
Sparks and Barry Greenwood

539
00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:23,940
um

540
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:26,340
Barry Greenwood who you just had on the

541
00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:28,440
show with David Marler Barry Greenwood's

542
00:27:33,890 --> 00:27:30,360
an old-time UFO researcher he's been

543
00:27:35,330 --> 00:27:33,900
around for a long time and

544
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,340
uh

545
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:37,919
Greenwood was the first person to get

546
00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:40,260
wind of these documents

547
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:43,500
um yeah because of a um

548
00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:47,820
a researcher that was

549
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:50,580
more kind of uh

550
00:27:58,610 --> 00:27:55,669
he was he was getting Snippets of

551
00:28:01,070 --> 00:27:58,620
information for more and he was sending

552
00:28:03,649 --> 00:28:01,080
in a fo Freedom of Information foia

553
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:03,659
requests trying to get information on uh

554
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:06,960
this strange uh group of people in these

555
00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:08,880
documents and so things started getting

556
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:12,600
out that uh these documents exist uh

557
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:14,760
Barry Greenwood was the first person to

558
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,440
start writing about this and really

559
00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:18,720
looking into this

560
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:21,900
um but he also uh teamed up with a

561
00:28:27,710 --> 00:28:24,779
fellow researcher Brad Sparks and uh

562
00:28:30,409 --> 00:28:27,720
they presented a paper at the 2007 mufon

563
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:30,419
Symposium where they discussed the mj-12

564
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:32,880
documents and Dodie and Moore's

565
00:28:39,289 --> 00:28:36,000
involvement with them uh Brad Sparks

566
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,299
punched a hole in it from the get-go uh

567
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:41,580
the the documents were received in the

568
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:46,380
late 1985. I think as early as 87 uh

569
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:50,700
Brad Sparks found uh gross errors uh

570
00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:53,279
page three of the Eisenhower briefing

571
00:28:59,149 --> 00:28:55,140
document has a description of Kenneth

572
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,159
Arnold's June 24 1947 sighting there's a

573
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:01,200
description of a recovery operation

574
00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:04,460
quote in a remote region of New Mexico

575
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:07,500
located approximately 70 miles Northwest

576
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:11,039
of our Roswell Army Air Base where

577
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:13,140
wreckage and four alien bodies were

578
00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:14,279
recovered

579
00:29:21,470 --> 00:29:17,940
now the gross error is that if you're

580
00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,480
flying it's 62 miles and if you're

581
00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:24,299
driving it's over a hundred miles so

582
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:26,460
Sparks pointed that out so you know this

583
00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:28,380
is a briefing document you would think

584
00:29:34,540 --> 00:29:31,500
they'd have their facts straight sure uh

585
00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:34,550
so there are numerous

586
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:36,059
[Music]

587
00:29:39,769 --> 00:29:37,440
uh

588
00:29:42,649 --> 00:29:39,779
errors in these documents like

589
00:29:45,529 --> 00:29:42,659
grammatical too yeah that that's the

590
00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:45,539
other funny thing yeah uh and this is a

591
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,700
pattern uh before these documents there

592
00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:49,200
were what were called the Aquarius

593
00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:50,520
documents

594
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:52,980
and this was apparently uh that's

595
00:30:00,049 --> 00:29:56,460
supposed to be a briefing The Carter and

596
00:30:01,970 --> 00:30:00,059
uh the there's a teletype and a an

597
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:01,980
aquarius document and the Aquarius

598
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:04,140
document is just a pretty ridiculous

599
00:30:10,430 --> 00:30:05,700
looking

600
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:10,440
official document

601
00:30:18,409 --> 00:30:14,159
um and one of those uh

602
00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:18,419
sillier things in that is the idea that

603
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:20,220
um

604
00:30:27,710 --> 00:30:25,679
a character essentially uh Jesus they

605
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:27,720
not mentioned by name sent to this

606
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,460
planet to uh

607
00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:32,399
teach us uh how to be civilized or you

608
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:35,100
know to teach us civilization

609
00:30:38,510 --> 00:30:36,240
um

610
00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:38,520
so

611
00:30:42,289 --> 00:30:40,500
um

612
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:42,299
there were grammatical errors and

613
00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:44,100
punctuation errors in that as well so

614
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,779
for a briefing document that's pretty

615
00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:48,000
ridiculous as well

616
00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:50,220
um so yeah these these documents ended

617
00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:53,279
up being uh when you if you look at them

618
00:30:57,649 --> 00:30:55,140
I I read them for the very first time

619
00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:57,659
writing this because I grew up with you

620
00:31:01,970 --> 00:30:59,340
know I not grew up but you know I've

621
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:01,980
been through all this stuff uh lived

622
00:31:06,409 --> 00:31:05,039
with all this for years and back in the

623
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:06,419
day I wasn't interested enough to

624
00:31:10,490 --> 00:31:08,760
actually read them uh so now I've

625
00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:10,500
actually read them and they're pretty

626
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:13,020
pretty damn ridiculous

627
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:16,320
um so uh that's something I learned

628
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:17,580
along the way

629
00:31:22,669 --> 00:31:19,620
so

630
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:22,679
now we've punched holes in dodies and

631
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:25,520
Moore's credibility punched holes the

632
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:28,200
punched holes in The credibility of the

633
00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:30,840
documents they're presenting

634
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,500
um

635
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,120
and

636
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:35,279
all this is leading up to this

637
00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:38,820
production of UFO cover-up live

638
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:40,380
um

639
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:43,440
but another twist in the road

640
00:31:49,549 --> 00:31:45,720
is this

641
00:31:52,730 --> 00:31:49,559
a group called The aviary

642
00:31:53,630 --> 00:31:52,740
um which is part four

643
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:53,640
um

644
00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:55,380
and

645
00:32:00,049 --> 00:31:56,700
hmm

646
00:32:02,510 --> 00:32:00,059
the Aviary uh

647
00:32:04,909 --> 00:32:02,520
is you've got the names Falcon and

648
00:32:06,350 --> 00:32:04,919
Condor which uh the guys who were in UFO

649
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,360
cover-up live

650
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:08,880
their

651
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,500
uh

652
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,720
there was there were rumors going out

653
00:32:16,610 --> 00:32:14,159
that there was this group much like

654
00:32:24,669 --> 00:32:16,620
mj-12 of government insiders military

655
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:24,679
and intelligence uh that uh were

656
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,559
basically a UFO working group

657
00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:31,200
um and it seems there actually was a UFO

658
00:32:37,549 --> 00:32:33,899
working group and Ralph Blum looked into

659
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:37,559
it in his 1990 book out there

660
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,080
um and they were made up of people who

661
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,240
were members of or who had connections

662
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,159
to the military and intelligence

663
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:46,799
community and had a genuine interest in

664
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:50,159
the UFO subject uh so you know this is

665
00:32:54,289 --> 00:32:52,380
where I get to you know people are

666
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,299
people uh whether they're in the

667
00:32:59,450 --> 00:32:57,120
government or you know in the military

668
00:33:02,510 --> 00:32:59,460
or in intelligence circles there are

669
00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:02,520
people as we know from people like uh

670
00:33:08,269 --> 00:33:06,419
kit green and uh Christopher Mellon who

671
00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:08,279
are genuinely interested in the UFO

672
00:33:14,509 --> 00:33:12,179
subject and try to get information about

673
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,519
it and use their uh use their

674
00:33:17,169 --> 00:33:16,559
connections

675
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:17,179
um

676
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,720
so

677
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:20,880
the idea that there was an actual group

678
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,740
called the Aviary was

679
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:24,480
something to look into it's pretty

680
00:33:27,529 --> 00:33:25,980
tenable

681
00:33:30,169 --> 00:33:27,539
well

682
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:30,179
it didn't occur to me that this it

683
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:31,980
occurred to me as I'm writing this that

684
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,880
this was at around the same time

685
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:38,220
that this group started getting active

686
00:33:43,490 --> 00:33:41,220
was around the same time as

687
00:33:49,970 --> 00:33:47,990
project Stargate was uh running a remote

688
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:49,980
viewing program

689
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:53,580
um that was started at um oh where was

690
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:55,320
that started

691
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,399
um

692
00:34:04,130 --> 00:33:59,279
it's a government-funded remote viewing

693
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:04,140
program uh actually the DIA under the

694
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:05,760
DIA

695
00:34:11,950 --> 00:34:08,879
um and it was uh the funding was

696
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:11,960
eventually pulled because they didn't

697
00:34:16,849 --> 00:34:15,359
seem to be getting a consistent reliable

698
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:16,859
results

699
00:34:18,770 --> 00:34:17,460
um

700
00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:18,780
so

701
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:20,820
it was at the same time that this was

702
00:34:26,329 --> 00:34:22,500
going on not only that the first Earth

703
00:34:27,369 --> 00:34:26,339
Army was going on so this was

704
00:34:33,409 --> 00:34:27,379
um

705
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:33,419
and a book uh the men are scared the

706
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:37,500
ministeric goats stared at Goats uh and

707
00:34:43,609 --> 00:34:40,260
uh written by John Ronson

708
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,619
um and the um the documentary version

709
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,839
can be seen in the series uh secret

710
00:34:50,089 --> 00:34:47,760
rulers of the world

711
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:50,099
uh and so this

712
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:53,159
involved people that some of whom were

713
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:55,260
said to have been involved in the okay

714
00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:58,800
there's a list of who this Aviary might

715
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:01,500
be uh it shows up in Adam go rightly's

716
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:05,099
book uh saucer Spooks and Kooks uh and

717
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:08,280
it shows up in other different versions

718
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:11,280
of this list show up all over the web

719
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:13,500
um Richard Doty Sparrow Robert Collins

720
00:35:18,589 --> 00:35:16,200
Condor a guy named early Ernie Keller

721
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:18,599
Strauss Hawk he'll become an important

722
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:21,960
character in this discussion Jamie uh

723
00:35:27,170 --> 00:35:25,200
chandaray woodpecker John Alexander whom

724
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:27,180
I'm sure a lot of people have heard of

725
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:30,480
penguin and then there's a kit green

726
00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:33,060
blue jay how put off we've heard of him

727
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:38,220
uh owl and Dr Ron pandolfi Pelican

728
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:39,180
um

729
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:46,970
these same guys also a lot of them uh I

730
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:49,160
think Ernie Keller Strauss in particular

731
00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:53,339
uh went to spoon bending parties

732
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:57,540
um no viewing uh they were interested in

733
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:00,660
out of body experiences and a lot of new

734
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:03,359
age mysticism permeated the military

735
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:08,160
back in this time uh in after uh

736
00:36:14,329 --> 00:36:11,880
the military's base humiliation in the

737
00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:14,339
uh Vietnam War there was a big morale

738
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,380
problem

739
00:36:21,410 --> 00:36:18,720
um and

740
00:36:23,390 --> 00:36:21,420
I I forget the guy's name I should know

741
00:36:25,250 --> 00:36:23,400
this but um

742
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:25,260
basically the guy who started the first

743
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:26,700
Earth Army

744
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,760
uh he started it because he noted that

745
00:36:35,089 --> 00:36:31,920
his uh

746
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:35,099
so that soldiers in the in uh during

747
00:36:40,670 --> 00:36:37,740
Vietnam I think he counted something

748
00:36:44,089 --> 00:36:40,680
like 60 of them maybe even higher shoot

749
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:44,099
over the heads of the enemy

750
00:36:48,170 --> 00:36:45,900
um and

751
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:48,180
he wanted to look into this and try and

752
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:51,359
build a better Soldier and he went off

753
00:36:54,430 --> 00:36:53,220
and immersed himself in the New Age

754
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:54,440
movement

755
00:36:58,609 --> 00:36:56,040
and

756
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:58,619
so you know did all kinds of meditations

757
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:01,680
and etc etc etc and then came back with

758
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:03,660
this uh

759
00:37:09,050 --> 00:37:06,000
first I think it was the uh first Earth

760
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,060
Battalion uh he had a manual

761
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:11,280
and this actually shows up in the

762
00:37:16,250 --> 00:37:14,400
popular version of the um in the

763
00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:16,260
fictionalized version of the metasteric

764
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:18,260
goat starring George Clooney

765
00:37:24,849 --> 00:37:21,180
uh with uh

766
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:27,710
you oh it doesn't matter yeah yeah yeah

767
00:37:32,089 --> 00:37:30,000
yeah so anyway it this is the time

768
00:37:35,089 --> 00:37:32,099
context where all these guys have this

769
00:37:37,370 --> 00:37:35,099
UFO working group going on

770
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:37,380
um so

771
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:40,079
what happened

772
00:37:44,990 --> 00:37:42,540
what seems to have happened is that

773
00:37:46,609 --> 00:37:45,000
these guys are treading stories with

774
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:46,619
each other

775
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,380
um and because they're government

776
00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:51,480
insiders they say well I heard from this

777
00:37:58,430 --> 00:37:54,660
guy uh and then all these stories

778
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:58,440
started growing in among members of the

779
00:38:02,329 --> 00:38:00,320
intelligence community and the military

780
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,339
who believed in things like remote

781
00:38:07,609 --> 00:38:04,800
viewing and Spoon bending

782
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:07,619
um and these stories started taking on a

783
00:38:13,069 --> 00:38:10,020
certain credibility because well I heard

784
00:38:14,810 --> 00:38:13,079
it from uh you know Hal put off and I

785
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:14,820
heard this from kick green news you know

786
00:38:23,630 --> 00:38:18,839
the UFO weird desk at the CIA

787
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:23,640
um and so this seems to have been the

788
00:38:27,710 --> 00:38:26,160
Aviary now in terms of whether they

789
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:27,720
really existed

790
00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:29,940
uh

791
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,540
Dodie and Collins actually wrote a book

792
00:38:36,849 --> 00:38:35,280
called The Black World exempt from

793
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:36,859
disclosure

794
00:38:43,069 --> 00:38:39,960
and you know they claimed yes there

795
00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:43,079
really was an Aviary and they uh there's

796
00:38:48,109 --> 00:38:46,440
uh one uh part where Collins describes a

797
00:38:50,030 --> 00:38:48,119
meeting at the home of Ernie Keller

798
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,040
Strauss that included more chandaray

799
00:38:54,530 --> 00:38:52,320
Dodie and John Alexander according to

800
00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:54,540
Collins and began talking about the E.T

801
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:57,060
who was an ambassador or liaison to the

802
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:58,160
U.S

803
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:01,680
uh so you know these guys are talking

804
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:03,839
about this but does any of them have any

805
00:39:09,470 --> 00:39:06,079
proof is there any documentation

806
00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:09,480
uh where does this come from well

807
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:11,460
pandolfi

808
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:12,420
um

809
00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:22,560
this guy Vince Johnson wrote an article

810
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,839
the Aviary the aquarium there was

811
00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:26,160
another group called The Aquarium

812
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:28,380
apparently the fish names and

813
00:39:34,190 --> 00:39:32,339
eschatology which is a study of end time

814
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:34,200
prophecies

815
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:38,220
um and uh in relation to people in the

816
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:40,980
government interested in this

817
00:39:48,290 --> 00:39:45,839
um so in this article there is also a

818
00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:48,300
list of Aviary members similar to the

819
00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:51,420
one I just read which is in uh go right

820
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:53,940
ADAM Go rightly's books

821
00:39:58,730 --> 00:39:57,420
um so Johnson

822
00:40:01,069 --> 00:39:58,740
um

823
00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:01,079
interviewed Pam dolfi he omits

824
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:03,960
pandolfi's name uh but as the Pelican

825
00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:06,480
has the code name Pelican he also

826
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:09,000
describes pandolfi's position at the CIA

827
00:40:13,069 --> 00:40:11,339
as a physicist with the cia's

828
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:13,079
directorate of Science and Technology

829
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:16,800
who managed the weird desk uh UFOs Etc

830
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,400
at the CIA so it's almost certainly

831
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:23,520
pandolfi and pandolfi was described also

832
00:40:30,650 --> 00:40:27,060
Isaac Coy did a threat of the on this

833
00:40:32,750 --> 00:40:30,660
um on an Above Top Secret Forum

834
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:32,760
um he called pandolfi the successor of

835
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,280
kick green as The cia's Keeper of the

836
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:37,800
weird working on the cia's weird desk so

837
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,220
this is almost certainly pandolfi uh and

838
00:40:46,910 --> 00:40:43,920
according to Johnson when he asked uh

839
00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:46,920
about the Aviary

840
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:48,660
um

841
00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:51,200
uh

842
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,540
pandolfi said the Aviary is nothing more

843
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,400
than the product of the somewhat

844
00:41:02,109 --> 00:40:59,160
deranged mine of Falcon that's confusing

845
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:02,119
retired uh it's actually Condor but

846
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:05,880
ranged mind of Falcon retired Air Force

847
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,119
Captain Robert Collins and he went on to

848
00:41:13,849 --> 00:41:11,280
describe how Collins was discharged from

849
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:13,859
the Air Force after being arrested

850
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:15,720
inside the security perimeter of the

851
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:17,839
Manzano nuclear weapons storage facility

852
00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:20,880
according to pandolfi Collins told his

853
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:23,460
captors that he was there to meet the

854
00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:24,800
president

855
00:41:30,589 --> 00:41:27,060
and so

856
00:41:31,609 --> 00:41:30,599
it looks like Colin was a bit wacky

857
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:31,619
um

858
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:39,410
other uh hole in the whole Aviary thing

859
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:42,720
is or an explanation where some of

860
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:43,560
theirs

861
00:41:48,829 --> 00:41:46,800
information was coming from uh can be

862
00:41:52,030 --> 00:41:48,839
seen in a

863
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:52,040
paper by Bruce mcenbeckby

864
00:41:58,370 --> 00:41:55,440
he interviewed Ernie Keller Strauss Hawk

865
00:42:01,730 --> 00:41:58,380
I was a lieutenant colonel U.S Air Force

866
00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:01,740
retired and he published it in 1985 and

867
00:42:06,349 --> 00:42:04,440
it's called Hawk Tales

868
00:42:08,329 --> 00:42:06,359
um

869
00:42:10,730 --> 00:42:08,339
Keller Strauss describes getting

870
00:42:12,589 --> 00:42:10,740
information from Dale Graf a one-time

871
00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:12,599
director of project Stargate the remote

872
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:16,200
viewing program about ebes one of whom

873
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:19,680
liked to go the go to the beach I talked

874
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:22,260
about recovered craft and a book where

875
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,900
all of this was documented uh Keller

876
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:26,880
Strauss talks about grass intense

877
00:42:30,349 --> 00:42:28,920
interest in the Paranormal and out of

878
00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:30,359
body experiences

879
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,200
uh so it's an open-minded guy

880
00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:36,720
um but an important thing that Maccabee

881
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,540
wrote was in his epilogue he said one

882
00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:41,280
other other thing should be mentioned to

883
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:43,020
put this into a special historical

884
00:42:48,530 --> 00:42:46,200
context in the middle of the 1970s the

885
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:48,540
CIA established the top secret program

886
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,260
to investigate remote viewing

887
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:54,599
um Maccabee describes that some remote

888
00:42:59,329 --> 00:42:57,660
viewers reported seeing UFOs and tells

889
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,339
the reader that this established a

890
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:01,200
connection not an expected or wanted

891
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:03,480
connection between the remote viewing

892
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,780
program and UFO investigation

893
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,359
uh it became apparent that these two

894
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:11,760
parallel investigations were welded

895
00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:14,700
together at a highly classified level

896
00:43:20,109 --> 00:43:17,700
uh so correctly kind of references this

897
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,119
in saucer Spooks and coops

898
00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:22,560
essentially saying that these guys were

899
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:24,660
getting their UFO and ET information

900
00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:27,359
from remote viewers

901
00:43:31,849 --> 00:43:28,680
um

902
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:31,859
so you know so

903
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:34,800
the likelihood is that this was a it

904
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,400
that what people you know thought was

905
00:43:43,730 --> 00:43:40,560
this you know highly organized uh group

906
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:43,740
called the Aviary uh who were passing

907
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:46,079
along uh UFO information Insider

908
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:47,760
information and getting the dirt and

909
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:50,460
kind of feeding it out to the public and

910
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:51,960
then for some reason Dodie's

911
00:43:56,270 --> 00:43:54,540
disinforming the public it really seems

912
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:56,280
to have been an informal UFO working

913
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,200
group of guys who are interested in this

914
00:44:02,450 --> 00:44:00,780
along with a lot of other esoteric

915
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,460
things

916
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,079
um and they actually they actually

917
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:06,720
admitted or a few of them like kit green

918
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:09,000
actually admitted

919
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,240
uh that they were part they did

920
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:14,640
they were part of the Aviary

921
00:44:19,370 --> 00:44:17,880
uh Collins and Dodie wrote it in their

922
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:19,380
book

923
00:44:22,730 --> 00:44:21,240
um I don't I don't know about kick green

924
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:22,740
uh admitting that he was part of the

925
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,420
Aviary

926
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:26,160
um but

927
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:27,119
um

928
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:30,300
you know I I'm actually not to uh too up

929
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,599
on uh kick Green in terms of that uh but

930
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,040
you know Keller Strauss talked about

931
00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:37,680
being you know part of this working

932
00:44:41,329 --> 00:44:39,480
group I don't think Keller Strauss

933
00:44:42,829 --> 00:44:41,339
actually yeah I think Keller Strauss

934
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:42,839
called himself Hawk as well because this

935
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:45,119
is called Hawk Tales

936
00:44:53,089 --> 00:44:50,040
um so anyway in into this Miu uh Dodie

937
00:44:55,970 --> 00:44:53,099
got more in touch with Collins and this

938
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,980
UFO working group so Moore and chandaray

939
00:45:00,050 --> 00:44:57,720
as I was mentioned here there was

940
00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:00,060
actually a meeting with more shandarin

941
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:03,240
Dodie uh at the home of Keller Strauss

942
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:05,760
and like I said they they're like uh it

943
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:09,060
it in uh

944
00:45:13,970 --> 00:45:11,640
Collins said they began talking about

945
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:13,980
the E.T who was an ambassador or liaison

946
00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:19,260
to the U.S uh so chandray and more are

947
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:23,099
privy to this apparently to this uh UFO

948
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:25,500
working group and getting what they

949
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:28,500
think is all this inside information

950
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:34,910
um

951
00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:38,640
where the MJ 12 papers likely came from

952
00:45:42,050 --> 00:45:40,619
is talked about

953
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:42,060
by

954
00:45:48,589 --> 00:45:45,359
um Brad Sparks and Barry Greenwood

955
00:45:51,170 --> 00:45:48,599
um and

956
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:51,180
they talk about

957
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,040
Stan Friedman was doing a lot of

958
00:45:57,290 --> 00:45:55,200
research and he's coming up with names

959
00:45:59,569 --> 00:45:57,300
that he thought were likely people if

960
00:46:02,510 --> 00:45:59,579
there was some group in the government

961
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:02,520
this is all pre-mj12 these are the

962
00:46:07,970 --> 00:46:05,060
people who would be this might be

963
00:46:09,950 --> 00:46:07,980
more is having discussions with Dodie

964
00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:09,960
because they're trying to write a book

965
00:46:14,809 --> 00:46:13,319
together uh with Robert Pratt as the

966
00:46:15,530 --> 00:46:14,819
author

967
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,540
um

968
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:17,760
and Robert Pride actually started

969
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:20,460
recording phone calls from more uh the

970
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:22,680
book was I think they started in 1982

971
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:25,680
the the and the the book kind of fizzled

972
00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:30,240
by 1984 they never got it done but

973
00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:33,180
um the idea is that the it was Pratt's

974
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:34,980
idea that they fictionalized it with

975
00:46:40,970 --> 00:46:38,400
which more begrudgingly went along with

976
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:40,980
and

977
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:42,380
um

978
00:46:53,809 --> 00:46:49,390
so

979
00:46:56,210 --> 00:46:53,819
Dodie was sitting down with more and

980
00:46:58,250 --> 00:46:56,220
um Moore was telling him well you know

981
00:46:59,870 --> 00:46:58,260
we found this we found this we you know

982
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:59,880
we think this we think that you know

983
00:47:05,089 --> 00:47:02,400
this is giving him everything he found

984
00:47:06,410 --> 00:47:05,099
in his research and then Dodie would

985
00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:06,420
come around

986
00:47:10,849 --> 00:47:09,780
uh and feed him back what he just told

987
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:10,859
him so

988
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:13,800
um and eventually in the form of the

989
00:47:18,349 --> 00:47:16,740
mj-12 documents which uh Friedman

990
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:18,359
actually commented oh these are all the

991
00:47:22,130 --> 00:47:19,920
names we thought they would be well of

992
00:47:25,069 --> 00:47:22,140
course because you gave them the names

993
00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:25,079
uh so there's this feedback loop going

994
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:29,400
on uh that that Greenwood and uh Sparks

995
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:31,260
talked about they wrote an extensive

996
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:33,540
paper that they presented at the 2007

997
00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:37,440
mufon Symposium you can find that online

998
00:47:41,150 --> 00:47:38,339
um

999
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:41,160
and so yeah they discuss this feedback

1000
00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:43,859
loop and so not only did you have this

1001
00:47:49,069 --> 00:47:46,680
feedback loop going on between you know

1002
00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:49,079
Dodie Moore and Friedman

1003
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:54,359
um you also had Dodie with his guys uh

1004
00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:57,359
the the UFO working group

1005
00:48:02,270 --> 00:48:00,060
um so all this crazy stuff is just

1006
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:02,280
spiraling around

1007
00:48:07,130 --> 00:48:04,560
um yeah one one point I'd like to give

1008
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:07,140
you to talk about real quickly is uh the

1009
00:48:13,930 --> 00:48:10,319
the situation with the mj-12 documents

1010
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:13,940
they were being uh Timothy good

1011
00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:17,700
was uh was going to publish at the same

1012
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:19,980
time that bill Moore was going to

1013
00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:23,520
publish and yet Timothy good uh they

1014
00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:25,980
were having a press conference so Bill

1015
00:48:32,030 --> 00:48:28,500
Moore hurriedly uh put something

1016
00:48:33,650 --> 00:48:32,040
together to to make sure that uh there

1017
00:48:35,870 --> 00:48:33,660
was an appearance that these were

1018
00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:35,880
International you know internationally

1019
00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:38,220
known because Timothy Goodson you know

1020
00:48:43,250 --> 00:48:39,480
England

1021
00:48:46,849 --> 00:48:43,260
um so I I think that is really uh quite

1022
00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:46,859
telling and the mj-12 documents kind of

1023
00:48:51,230 --> 00:48:49,560
fit what uh Bill Moore was writing in

1024
00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:51,240
his book about Roswell so everything

1025
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:53,579
kind of fit together in that way as well

1026
00:49:01,370 --> 00:48:57,660
yeah this is a class uh Philip class uh

1027
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:01,380
summed up all this uh

1028
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:03,660
uh yeah

1029
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:04,500
um

1030
00:49:10,910 --> 00:49:06,540
well one of the things that came up with

1031
00:49:15,770 --> 00:49:13,730
Sparks Brad Sparks

1032
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:15,780
um Moore actually made a suggestion

1033
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:18,960
according to uh class

1034
00:49:24,050 --> 00:49:19,680
um

1035
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:24,060
that uh he told Brad Sparks that he and

1036
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:26,660
Stan Friedman had run into a dead end

1037
00:49:31,550 --> 00:49:29,760
and Moore made the suggestion to Sparks

1038
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,560
that fake government documents could be

1039
00:49:36,890 --> 00:49:33,599
created this is all before the rods you

1040
00:49:38,569 --> 00:49:36,900
know the this is 1983. uh the fake

1041
00:49:42,050 --> 00:49:38,579
government documents could be created

1042
00:49:43,690 --> 00:49:42,060
that might induce people to come forward

1043
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:43,700
um

1044
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:46,800
these Sparks called Friedman and

1045
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:50,520
according to uh class and was shocked to

1046
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:53,160
find that Friedman was for the idea

1047
00:50:04,010 --> 00:49:54,900
so

1048
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:04,020
according class he got together with uh

1049
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:07,800
Moore had a problem because if he

1050
00:50:13,309 --> 00:50:10,319
released the documents and they found

1051
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:13,319
were found to be faked uh it looks

1052
00:50:17,770 --> 00:50:15,060
pretty bad for more because he's the guy

1053
00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:17,780
that would profit most from all this

1054
00:50:24,650 --> 00:50:22,200
uh so a good solution of the problem was

1055
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:24,660
when he met British UFO researcher

1056
00:50:29,569 --> 00:50:28,020
Timothy good in May of 1986. he made an

1057
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:29,579
arrangement with good that good could

1058
00:50:34,970 --> 00:50:32,700
publish the papers in the book Above Top

1059
00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:34,980
Secret and it would make it look like

1060
00:50:38,930 --> 00:50:37,319
both more and good got the documents

1061
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:38,940
independently

1062
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,160
um from a source or sources in the

1063
00:50:44,930 --> 00:50:43,680
intelligence community and the documents

1064
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,940
would also receive immediate

1065
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:46,800
international coverage

1066
00:50:53,630 --> 00:50:50,040
so Warren Friedman were scheduled to

1067
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:53,640
speak on June 14 1987 at the 24th annual

1068
00:50:58,490 --> 00:50:56,400
UFO conference in Burbank California

1069
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:58,500
which was sponsored by more

1070
00:51:02,450 --> 00:51:00,960
uh and they were going to review uh

1071
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:02,460
release

1072
00:51:08,990 --> 00:51:06,000
reveal some very startling material

1073
00:51:11,890 --> 00:51:09,000
uh unfortunately Goods publisher decided

1074
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:11,900
to hold a press conference on May 29th

1075
00:51:19,870 --> 00:51:16,980
and feature the books MJ 12 documents

1076
00:51:24,049 --> 00:51:19,880
so good actually uh

1077
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,059
had the good graces to uh tell more of

1078
00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:26,640
his Publisher's plans and more had the

1079
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,440
scramble to release his copies first and

1080
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:30,420
he got them to the media to the media on

1081
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,460
May 28th just one day before the British

1082
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:34,319
press conference

1083
00:51:41,870 --> 00:51:37,680
so yeah that's that whole story

1084
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:41,880
um pretty pretty bizarre yeah yeah a big

1085
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,400
guy that uh was really hammering on

1086
00:51:49,490 --> 00:51:46,319
these people too

1087
00:51:52,430 --> 00:51:49,500
um especially on Warren Dodie uh was

1088
00:51:55,010 --> 00:51:52,440
Robert Hastings and um

1089
00:51:57,170 --> 00:51:55,020
uh he wrote a very early piece on this

1090
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:57,180
and he he really went to town he went to

1091
00:52:01,130 --> 00:51:59,220
town on Dodie

1092
00:52:02,990 --> 00:52:01,140
um and

1093
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:03,000
um Dodie

1094
00:52:07,970 --> 00:52:04,680
threatened at least one person with

1095
00:52:09,950 --> 00:52:07,980
litigation back then uh and Hastings

1096
00:52:10,970 --> 00:52:09,960
called him out and basically said if

1097
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,980
you're going to threaten me with

1098
00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:12,960
litigation that means you have to in

1099
00:52:21,470 --> 00:52:16,680
court uh say that you were or were not

1100
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:21,480
an actual you disinformation agent uh so

1101
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:23,880
I think that was uh

1102
00:52:30,410 --> 00:52:26,400
Hastings whole card

1103
00:52:33,530 --> 00:52:30,420
um yeah so played it early yeah yeah so

1104
00:52:35,329 --> 00:52:33,540
yeah so this is all the stuff leading up

1105
00:52:36,890 --> 00:52:35,339
to this ridiculous train wreck of a

1106
00:52:39,010 --> 00:52:36,900
program and this is all the stuff that's

1107
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:39,020
swirling around in ufology at the time

1108
00:52:43,490 --> 00:52:41,760
and to this day there are people out

1109
00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:43,500
there that are still confused about all

1110
00:52:48,730 --> 00:52:45,780
this what to believe what not to believe

1111
00:52:53,890 --> 00:52:48,740
there are people that uh

1112
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:53,900
you know still will you know probably

1113
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:56,400
beat you up if you tell them that the

1114
00:53:02,870 --> 00:52:58,859
mj-12 papers are fake

1115
00:53:05,089 --> 00:53:02,880
um I think Stan Stan was

1116
00:53:07,069 --> 00:53:05,099
yeah very much thought they you know he

1117
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:07,079
was backing them up all the way to you

1118
00:53:11,630 --> 00:53:09,300
know we had conversations right to the

1119
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,640
end and he still thought they were right

1120
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:13,680
you know he did all that research in the

1121
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:17,040
archives and he found you know things

1122
00:53:22,490 --> 00:53:19,559
that kind of matched and stuff like that

1123
00:53:24,890 --> 00:53:22,500
but I uh yeah I personally don't have a

1124
00:53:27,049 --> 00:53:24,900
lot of faith in them yeah I think there

1125
00:53:29,450 --> 00:53:27,059
are a few other kind of mainstream

1126
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:29,460
people out there that were touting them

1127
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:30,839
is real

1128
00:53:35,569 --> 00:53:33,300
yeah like I said I'm sure there's still

1129
00:53:37,490 --> 00:53:35,579
people to this day and uh you know

1130
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:37,500
Stanton Freeman had a lot vested in all

1131
00:53:43,569 --> 00:53:41,040
this he had a lot vested in um Roswell

1132
00:53:47,630 --> 00:53:43,579
which you know I've said

1133
00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:47,640
repeatedly uh on Fair numerous podcasts

1134
00:53:52,609 --> 00:53:49,140
that you know that's a real danger in

1135
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:52,619
UFO researcher is to

1136
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:55,260
um invest so much time on a single case

1137
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:58,079
because if things start looking shaky

1138
00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:00,960
yeah eggs in the basket as they say you

1139
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,880
know what I just I just we're out of

1140
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:04,319
time can you believe that that went off

1141
00:54:10,670 --> 00:54:08,640
that quick wow and uh and yeah uh Bill's

1142
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,680
gonna run so thank you so much Charles

1143
00:54:14,990 --> 00:54:12,720
and really thank you for everything you

1144
00:54:17,089 --> 00:54:15,000
do which is a lot I really appreciate it

1145
00:54:20,089 --> 00:54:17,099
my pleasure the time went really quick

1146
00:54:21,710 --> 00:54:20,099
it did happy holidays to you as well all

1147
00:54:24,049 --> 00:54:21,720
right YouTube Martin all right have a

1148
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:24,059
good night yeah all right everyone we'll

1149
00:54:28,849 --> 00:54:25,920
be back with Avi Loeb next week tomorrow

1150
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:28,859
Mark d'antonio and I will be here at

1151
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:30,540
eight o'clock so hope to see you there

1152
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:33,839
thank you very much and I appreciate you

1153
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:36,780
all uh listening and remember to keep

1154
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:39,930
your eyes to the sky

1155
00:54:43,260 --> 00:54:49,240
foreign